Please post comments relevant to the Handprints site.
Your childhood discipline memories are welcome.
Please DON'T post PHOTOS of juvenile spankings, LINKS to sites with such photos, or descriptions of spankings you gave your real life children.

Message:

6:37pm 11-16-2023
Foglia
Apparently this article received pushback from the beginning.

https://twitter.com/melliflora/status/1188877741405294593?t=uYz6iFio0gGKEL0DMhu7FQ&s=19
6:50pm 11-14-2023
nitro (silentsurfer)
As a result of a great deal of very respectful communication with Prostasia, I've concluded that Prostasia has zero interest in protecting children or in support of the minor attracted. All they want is to silence all communication and potential dissent. As such, they are a useless organization with no reason for existence. What do they actually stand for? I was a big supporter and they know that.

{HandPrince replies: So was I. Their critics claim that they're just out to promote the interests of "MAPs" (minor-attracted persons), and for years I've been saying the critics are wrong. But after the past couple months I'm starting to think maybe the critics have a point after all. If MAPs having legal access to their lolicon and juvenile-looking sex dolls helps prevent child abuse, then tolerating comparable non-contact outlets for childhood-oriented spanking fetishists ought to do likewise. But instead, Prostasia smears people swapping photos of "spankings" from mainstream G-rated sources, and engaging in fantasy online roleplays about make-believe child spanking "conferences" as if this was all some kind of criminal conspiracy - an evil conspiracy against which Prostasia courageously stands. Their executive director's response when this was pointed out to her was not to respond. The Prostasia forum's response when I posted this line of reasoning there was to delete my posting and then ignore me when I asked them which Forum rules they alleged my carefully-reasoned expository piece violated. Like you, silentsurfer, I'm done with Prostasia.}
1:56am 11-13-2023
Sparta
I've supported and advocated for artists and you (albeit under different handles) over the years, but I'm not quite sure what to make of this latest passion, as this site has its own censorship rules where, for example KD's art (if anyone remembers that far back) couldn't be featured despite no sexual content. I'm glad of your advocacy for a spanko community that is deeply misunderstood. But with every artistic outlet, including this one, subject to censorship, is there really a fight left to fight?

{HandPrince replies: Mr. KD's images, over thirty of them, appear in eight galleries on Handprints. They haven't gone anywhere. I just haven't seen anything new from him for the past three years or so. Also, having editorial policies regarding content isn't the same as "censorship."}
1:42am 11-07-2023
Foglia
But since this guestbook was originally meant to discuss the gallery, that's what I'll do. Tua is my favorite artist, she's very obviously a professional one. Wish she'd post more pictures. I also enjoy the comic strips, perhaps weirdly as they're not meant to be erotic. Now that Childhood Spanking Memories on Voy is just broken links, there's sadly few outlets besides this site that suit my fetish. Most other spanking boards on Voy tend to go off the rails fairly quickly, and I don't enjoy them. Not surprised they're always taken down eventually.

Wish this site allowed for the spanking of boys to be posted as well. Boys being spanked bare by their dads is my favorite fantasy.
1:06am 11-07-2023
Foglia
You missed the part where I said I only considered writing her because we run in the same circles, which would imply outing myself in *some* capacity... If I approached her differently it wouldn't have the same effect.

Still, it'll likely won't happen. I've never been aware of any war existing between different sides of the spanko community, as I don't interact with it, so I'm scarcely motivated to get myself involved.

{HandPrince replies: You probably aren't aware of the "war" because it is entirely one-sided. People with childhood-oriented spanking fetishes aren't trying to make people with adult-oriented spanking fetishes vanish from the web, claim they are a cesspit of domestic violence perpetrators, or human traffickers, etc. It's only the reverse.

Certain adult-oriented spanking fetishists want to follow in the LGBT's footsteps to total societal acceptance. The existence of childhood-oriented spanking fetishists hinders that campaign and hence they want us all to disappear off of the web and entirely back into our closets so we stop spoiling the image these campaigners want to project to the general public. Jillian Keenan's "Spanking Predators" videos are a particularly egregious example of such warfare, since they aren't merely calling us disgusting, offensive, etc. but falsely claiming we are a cesspit of child beating pornographers etc. and using bogus "evidence" in support of that claim.}
12:34pm 11-04-2023
Foglia
As I said I'm reluctant to get involved in this issue beyond what I've already done. I debated reaching out to the author of the article as we're apparently involved in the same circles but have decided not to for now, given that it would compromise my fetish anonymity and I don't want her to feel ganged up on. I'll let you know if I decide otherwise.

{HandPrince replies: As you wish. You needn't identify yourself by name when you write, though. I mean... emailing someone without outing yourself isn't difficult.}
10:59pm 11-03-2023
Foglia
I think you're likely to achieve more if you toned down the snark when interacting with the executive directors of an abuse prevention organization. As the member of a marginalized sexual community, Prostasia would've probably been willing to hear your side if you approached them differently - much more than Keenan ever was.

Maybe now not anymore, unfortunately.

{HandPrince replies: Okay Foglia. YOU write to her then. Here is Prostasia's Contact page URL htps://prostasia.org/contact/ (with one "t" missing.}
8:50pm 11-03-2023
Jack Mehuff
Who cares. I don't, you shouldn't, even jillian doesn't care. She's into clout.

{HandPrince replies: Then she should stop smearing us as harboring nonexistent child abuse rings in our midst in her pursuit of clout.}
9:47pm 10-30-2023
HandPrince

Homepage url

http://thehandprints.com
I posted the following open letter to Prostasia Foundation's online Forum. It was deleted by the Forum moderators within hours. They said "Your post was flagged as inappropriate: the community feels it is offensive, abusive, to be hateful conduct or a violation of our community guidelines."

Handprints Guestbook readers can draw their own conclusions. The letter follows, in its entirety:


Dr. Tenbergen,

While other child protection organizations focus on victims, Prostasia distinguishes itself by focusing on preventing children from becoming victims in the first place. Prostasia wisely advocates for the continued legality and availability of alternative outlets for people whose sexual desires involve minors, such as manga, dolls, etc.

I don’t know if Prostasia officially disapproves or not of MAPs (i.e. "minor-attracted persons" trading/posting screen shots of their favorite child stars, or other images of attractive children, gleaned from mainstream G-rated sources on the web. But I’m sure you’ll agree that doing so is far preferable to any pedophilic in-person activity involving actual minors.

Likewise, Prostasia might or might not criticize a MAP forum engaged in a spontaneous online roleplay about an obviously-fictitious “Zeus Island,” far far away amidst the impossible-to-find-on-a-map “Sea of Ganymede,” where the native children have their traditional “pedophile prayer dance” each year in hopes of drawing an adorable pedophile all their own; accompanied by tongue-in-cheek admonitions about how only “Lolitanian Airlines” flies there so everyone in the forum should book their flight now because tickets are going fast. But I’m sure you’ll agree, Dr. Tenbergen, that MAPs engaging in pseudo-serious keeping-a-straight-face-but-with-a-twinkle-in-their-eyes online group fantasies are far preferable to any form of pedophilic sex tourism involving actual children.

I have no doubt that Prostasia, whatever its position on MAPs trading publicly-available non-porn photos of children with one another, would not agree that the existence of online groups engaged in trading and/or posting G-rated images of children from the web proved that such a forum was a “child abuse ring,” and that the publicly-available photos were “eroticized” images of “victims.”

Likewise, I have no doubt that Prostasia, whatever its position regarding pseudo-serious “Zeus Island” online roleplaying by MAPs, would not agree that the existence of online groups engaging in obvious fantasy roleplaying about make-believe “islands” proved that such a forum was an actual criminal conspiracy organizing a real-life sex tourism excursion.

Yet with Prostasia’s “Facebook and child-spanking fetish groups” blog article, the Foundation reverses its usual positions and caves to the narrative of its critics.

Like most pedophiles, most childhood-oriented spanking fetishists are non-contact. Posting a screen cap from a video of a smiling child getting a “birthday spanking,” or of a “spanking” scene from a mainstream Hollywood kids’ movie, differs in no important respect from MAPs trading images of children they find attractive, gleaned from equally-G-rated sources. And engaging in an obviously-fake online roleplay about a multi-day in-person “conference” with live spanking “workshops” differs in no important respect from MAPs in a forum having fun pretending to one another to be packing for a trip to an imaginary island where all-ages sex is legal and celebrated.

The crusaders striving to erase all childhood-oriented spanking fetish sites from the web (even those which feature nothing but non-porn, non-abusive, non-contact content as the vast majority do), utilize the same reasoning as Prostasia’s critics: such sites “normalize child abuse” and hence allegedly place children in danger. Every one of the three Facebook sites about which Prostasia wrote its letter to Facebook was a fantasy site. Every one of the images Prostasia cited in its letter as evidence of children “eroticized” and “battered” were in fact gleaned from harmless, identifiable, G-rated sources. All members of that forum recognized the “conference” as a fantasy, hence none ever posted or inquired about dates or a venue, just as one wouldn’t expect MAPs in the aforementioned hypothetical forum to post complaints about how they can’t find Zeus Island on the map and how Google can’t locate Lolitania Airlines’ bookings page.

When Prostasia lends its gravitas to baseless moral panics such as Jillian Keenan’s, it weakens its moral authority and its debating credibility necessary for defending alternative outlets for MAPs. After all, if non-contact childhood-oriented spanking fetish forums on the web constitute a threat to children, it only stands to reason that MAP forums constitute a comparable threat for comparable reasons.

Some pedophiles, a minority, do sexually abuse children. Likewise, some childhood-oriented spanking fetishists, a minority, do physically abuse children. If Prostasia chose to create a new blog article focusing on genuine, verified examples of school principals, Sunday school teachers, etc., spanking children in their care, and later caught with child-spanking porn, the Foundation wouldn’t hear a peep of protest from me. Such people should be arrested and their victims rescued. This is the form which child abuse by childhood-oriented spanking fetishists takes in the rare cases when it actually does occur - lone actors. But there is no evidence of any such “rings” now or in the past two decades, and no evidence of any “conference” “workshops” at any time ever.

Please exercise your authority as executive director to take down the “Facebook and child-spanking fetish groups” blog article, Dr. Tenbergen. Thank you for your consideration.
1:19pm 10-26-2023
HandPrince

Homepage url

http://thehandprints.com
For unknown reasons, 123Guestbook has an intermittent issue in which it won't save my attempts to edit peoples posts. Hal submitted the following but Guestbook wouldn't let me save any of my responses. Hence I'm posting the entire exchange in a message of my own. This message contains all of Hal's words, with none deleted or altered, along with my rejoinders in "{ }".

Handprince, Foglia, Nitro: Please rethink your pointless attacks on Jillian Keenan and Protasia.

{HandPrince replies: Lying about the existence of present day "rings" and "conferences" is an attack. Demonstrating that every bit of that alleged "evidence" is false is not an attack, it is a defense. Characterizing an online group featuring child spanking images from harmless G-rated sources as a "child abuse ring," and those images as "proof" of that accusation, is an attack. Correctly identifying the harmless G-rated sources of the images is not an attack. It is a fact check.}

Her videos from a few years ago were mostly accurate at the time.

{HandPrince replies: No, they weren't. They were all about alleged present day spanking fetish child abuse "rings" and "conferences" and were completely inaccurate the moment she posted them back in 2019, and they're completely inaccurate now.}

There WAS a spanking ring, as Handprince has admitted.

{HandPrince replies: That ring was broken up in 2002, seventeen years before she posted her videos in which she claimed that other rings just like that one were in operation in the present, and using a picture of a silly classroom birthday spanking, and a couple screen caps from a 1935 episode of "Our Gang" as "proof" that childhood-oriented spanking fetishists on the web were abusing real life children in order to swap photos of it with one another in the present. Her entire thesis was and is that childhood-oriented spanking fetish rings and "conferences" exist right now. They didn't then and they don't now. And anyone who disagrees has the burden of proof... REAL proof not misrepresented fake "proof."}

She may have been fooled into thinking there were others (and there may well have been others.)

{HandPrince replies: She's not fooled. She was and is the one doing the fooling. She's trying to ignite a moral panic against childhood-oriented spanking fetish sites on the web, and she's had some limited degree of success so far. Prostasia is totally on board with her crusade and says so; they respond to proof debunking Keenan's videos by suppressing it to the full extent of their ability while never admitting why they're doing so. (I'm currently banned from posting on their Forum after a month and half of message after message of mine getting deleted for phony reasons, and none of my blog Comments get approved there). Also, another child protection organization, which I'm not quite ready to name just yet, regularly and uncritically links to Keenan's "Spanking Predators" videos on its social media.}

She may have used a photo wrongly.

{HandPrince replies: There's no "may have" here. She has known at least since 2021 the true G-rated sources of all the photos she claims as evidence of spanking fetish child abuse "rings" operating in the present. And she will neither defend her misuse of those photos, because she can't, nor admit she misused them, much less remove her videos in which she misuses them.}

She may have mistaken a Facebook fantasy group for a real one, but whose fault is that?

{HandPrince replies: Hers. A modicum of critical thinking on her part would have shown her that the obvious roleplay fantasy about a "conference" was the obvious roleplay fantasy which it quite plainly was. She infiltrated that group but never made any attempt (at least none she admits to) to glean information about the time, place, and venue of its absurd, fictitious "conference." Why not? Obtaining this informatiokn ought to been her number one priority if she sincerely believed it was real, so that she could pass it on to the appropriate law enforcement authorities. Or did she recognize it as the obvious fantasy it plainly was but decided her opportunity to portray it as real, in order to push her odious moral panic narrative, was simply too good to pass up?}

Why bring this up now?

{HandPrince replies: Because every day her moral panic videos remain on Youtube is another attack on us. Every day that Prostasia's blog page, based entirely on her videos and calling for all childhood-oriented spanking fetish sites to be purged from the web remains up, is another attack on us. Every day that a certain other child protection organization links to her videos from its social media account yet again is another attack on us.}

She did not name anyone. She did not attack fantasy sites.

{HandPrince replies: She did nothing BUT attack fantasy sites. The fact that they didn't explicitly identify themselves as such, despite it being implicitly obvious that they were so, doesn't change the fact that they were fantasy sites. (If they had straight-out declared themselves fetish fantasy sites, Facebook might not have allowed them to exist). And Keenan has known this for years and won't take down her videos or admit error. She just lets her false narrative roll on and on. She's all about her narrative and she doesn't care that it's all based on falsehoods. She is the one you should be talking to, Hal, not us.}

She is a real person with a real identity. Attacking her through your personas here and encouraging others to do the same is cowardly. and potentially dangerous to her.

{HandPrince replies: Ms. Keenan is in no danger from Handprints viewers. At the time of this writing, no one except me has yet posted anything in her Youtube Comments sections of her two videos calling out her falsehoods and misrepresentations. We clearly include no crazed fanatics poised to go hunting for her in real life. If our little nation were a commonwealth enflamed enough to inspire even one nutcase like the QAnon fellow who shot up the "Pizzagate" restaurant in 2016, we'd surely also be enflamed enough to pepper her two videos with hundreds of incisive critiques by now. Plainly we aren't.}

I enjoy your site and appreciate the effort that goes into it. But there is no reason to revive an ancient controversy; the only reason this is happening is because you decided to revive a fantasy vs. reality debate from the past.

{HandPrince replies: This controversy only "went public" a week or so ago. And it isn't about fantasy vs. reality. It is about falsehoods knowingly offered up in the service of a potentially-dangerous moral panic, versus independently-verifiable facts conclusively debunking such falsehoods beyond any shadow of a doubt. You need to stop focusing on us, Hal, the targets of Ms. Keenan's mean-spirited and dishonest crusade, and start focusing on its source. SHE initiated this imbroglio with her moral panic videos, and she can stop it any time she chooses by simply removing them from Youtube. She should have done that years ago when informed of the true G-rated sources of her "child abuse ring" images, simply because it would have been the right thing for her to do and without anyone needing to ask her. SHE is "the only reason this is happening."}

Let it die.

{HandPrince replies: Do NOT exhort the people being shelled to "let it die." Exhort the person firing the artillery. As long as Ms. Keenan, her online posse, and the child protection organizations which have piggybacked onto her moral panic crusade keep lying about us, we will keep telling the truth about them. Tell HER to "let it die."}

I do not understand your motives, atypical of practicing spankos I know, of opposing spankos who disapprove of spanking of real children for any reason.

{HandPrince replies: I'm disappointed that you wrote that concluding sentence, Hal. It's gaslighting on your part. I can't possibly have made my true motives any clearer by now than I already have. And I believe you know perfectly well that my motivations for exposing Keenan's lies have nothing to do with "opposing spankos who disapprove of spanking of real children for any reason" (especially when you know, as a long time viewer of this site, that I am one of them). My respect for you diminished when I read those words.}
11:31am 10-22-2023
HandPrince

Homepage url

http://thehandprints.com
First of all, I'd like to thank Foglia for stepping up and posting a Comment on Prostasia's blog article centering Jillian Keenan's two "Spanking Predators" videos, and anyone else who's Comment there is currently awaiting moderation.

If you, Dear Reader, haven't Commented there yet, please do! Here is the URL (change the "hxxps" to "https":
hxxps://prostasia.org/blog/facebook-and-child-spanking-fetish-groups/

Anyone just now reading about this imbroglio here in the Guestbook for the first time is advised to scroll down to my two 9/30 messages and read upward from there to fill in the context of this current controversy, and to pick up talking points. Another good place to leave Comments is on Keenan's two videos. Let her hear from us!

My Comment, posted as a Reply to Foglia's Comment on Prostasia's blog article follows:

I'd say this article feels more than merely a *bit* naive. Prostasia appears to have uncritically accepted everything Ms. Keenan said in her videos as true while doing no fact checking of its own.

An actual 4-day conference of any kind involves a great deal of advance planning and coordination. If an actual "conference" were in the planning stages, threads would have appeared offering or asking about possible venues. Would someone's church allow their basement to be used? There would have been questions and concerns about funding, and about housing for out of town visitors. What would the costs be for attendees? What are the dates for the conference, and what is the deadline to register? What affordable hotel accomodations suitable for families exist within walking distance from the venue? Will childcare be available for infants during the conference? On and on.

Absolutely none of this appeared in that forum because those ridiculous "workshops" were total fantasies and everyone in that Facebook group knew it. The only posted information about the "conference" consisted entirely of titillating descriptions of those imaginary "workshops" full of the kinds of details about which spanking fetishists find exciting to write and read. Anyone who believes that any such "conferences" ever occurred or were ever seriously planned by anyone anywhere at any time has the burden of proof. No such proof exists. Yet Prostasia, in its letter to Facebook, credulously treated the "conference" as if it was actually something real.

In her "Update" video, at 03:54 ,Ms. Keenan features an image which she characterizes as "an assault on a little girl" and which Prostasia's letter to Facebook characterizes as "a real child being battered. " It's not. This actually comes from a 2004 video by an elementary school teacher, whom the children address as "Mrs. Oster," of birthday parties in her classroom. It shows the children eating donuts and the birthday boys and girls getting their birthday "spankings" from Mrs. Oster. The unblurred version shows that the little girl is smiling during her so-called "assault." Afterwards, still smiling she sits on Mrs. Oster's knee and receives her birthday chocolate bar from her teacher.

Prostasia, in reference to an image which appears at 04:25 in Keenan’s “Update” video, writes, “A third group, ‘Parents in favor of spanking’… one of the group administrators has an eroticized photograph of a child being spanked as his profile picture.” This alleged “eroticized photograph” is actually an image from a 1935 episode of the classic children’s humor program, “Our Gang,” (also called “The Little Rascals&rdquo, entitled “Anniversary Trouble.” (Why Prostasia thinks this image is “eroticized” is beyond me.) The entire 18 minute episode can be downloaded for free:
https://uloz.to/file/u1LLFxzKwWmU/our-gang-episode-anniversary-trouble-usa-1935-mp4

The so-called “eroticized photograph” about which Prostasia apparently found appalling enough to complain to Facebook, can be seen at 17:07 in that episode of that classic G-rated children's show.

This entire blog article is an embarrassment to Prostasia and should be taken down and replaced with something based on reality.
8:35am 10-22-2023
Foglia
Just informing you that I did leave a comment on the prostasia article and it wasn't approved.

{HandPrince replies: I just visited the article page, Foglia, and your Comment HAS been approved. The blog moderator just took a couple days doing it. THANK YOU for stepping up.}
6:02pm 10-21-2023
Nitro (silentsurfer)
Jillian Keenan has all the gravitas and factual backup of a QAnon video promoting Pizzagate. She is a hysterical wack job that is only interested in creating an internet panic over crap that she invents. I hope that Prostasia realizes that it was a mistake to promote her garbage. Mistakes happen. They can be fixed.

{HandPrince replies: I have little hope of Prostasia doing the honest thing and taking down it's moral panic blog article. I've been struggling with them for over a month now. No one at Prostasia will either defend their blog article or change it. Their executive director said in an email to me that there were "sound and rational" reasons for keeping the article in place, but didn't say what those reasons were. She ignored all of my factual challenges to the Keenan videos entirely. The moderator of the blog won't allow my Comments to post. The Prostasia Forum moderators currently have me banned from posting there for two weeks after sending me a shut-up-or-else message. I expect my ban will become permanent eventually because I'm not going to shut up about this.}
4:31pm 10-20-2023
Bill Sova

Homepage url

www.cinemaswats.com
I apologize for this question coming so "late in the game". i specifically refer to the HandPrince post of 9/30, regarding the Jillian Keenan videos SPANKING PREDITORS and SPANKING PREDATORS UPDATE.. You also refer, related to this, a video of birthday spankings in the class of a teacher named Mrs. Oster. I did not find that clip in either of the two Jillian Keenan videos I mentioned. Is it perhaps in another video of hers? Thanks.

{HandPrince replies: At 03:38 in her "Spanking Predators: Update" video, Keenan features a still from that classroom birthday spankings video, characterizing it as "an assault on a little girl." The child's face is blurred out so you can't see that she is smiling. Both Keenan and Prostasia falsely claim this image is evidence that spanking fetishists are abusing children and trading pictures of it with each other like the 2002 "Spanking Club" ring.

The classroom video of birthday spankings is the true source of that image, and refutes Keenan/Prostasia's misrepresentation of it as abusive k.p. produced by a spanking fetishist "ring." As such it never appears in any of Keenan's videos - only the out of context still photo which she mischaracterizes.}
2:24pm 10-20-2023
"Hal"
Although I have been looking at this website for years, I have never supplied information or comment to the guestbook. I remain deeply closeted for several reasons, although active with (a different identity) with the Kilahara Library, where I have written many stories and verses.

But I do want to defend Jillian Keenan from the attacks on her. I have been a spanko since I was a child (over 80 years), mostly ignorant about my situation until the web came into being. Except for Daphne Merkin, no one has been brave enough to discuss their own fetish publicly, under their own name, until Jillian wrote her ground-braking book. She has remained a brave, honest source of information on You Tube. She deserves better than the angry criticisms she has received on this site.

{HandPrince replies: Then she should take down her two "Spanking Predators" youtube videos and stop lying about us.}
Messages: 46 until 60 of 604.
Number of pages: 41
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